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    Match options for monthly matches

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    MarkEagle

    Posts : 64
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Age : 62

    Match options for monthly matches

    Post  MarkEagle on Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:22 pm

    Hi all,
    I will be opening a class for folks who want to test out new gear that is not "IDPA Legal" If you want to run a flashlight on your weapon, or want to try out a laser, maybe a new fangled magneto suspension holster then bring it and use it. You will need to specify it as a BUG weapon (back up gun) and when I process the scores you will be listed in a separate division. You can shoot these weapons in first or second gun, and only during our normal monthly matches. Fees will be the same as legal IDPA firearms.
    Of course it goes without saying that all weapons will have to be in a holster, no fanny packs or shoulder holsters. Thigh holsters are OK right now. In the BUG division if you do not have a holster, you can start in a low ready position. Anything deemed unsafe will be disqualified so don't make me make that decision.
    If this option gets out of hand I will cancel the offering, so let's play nice. If all goes well we will keep the BUG open.
    Thanks and see you Saturday! We will run a test run this month (September) and see how it goes.
    Mark

    surestrike1

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2010-09-20

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  surestrike1 on Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:16 pm

    Will the scores be posted for this "division" with the competition scores or just for fun (not turned in) ???
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    MarkEagle

    Posts : 64
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Age : 62

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  MarkEagle on Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:09 pm

    The scores will be calculated, but under the BUG gun division. You can note your scores and see where you place. We will use the same score sheets and all
    Mark

    surestrike1

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2010-09-20

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  surestrike1 on Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:44 pm

    So we can use our home defence guns????
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    MarkEagle

    Posts : 64
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Age : 62

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  MarkEagle on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:20 pm

    Probably a good idea to test them at a match to see if they actually work. I have heard some Glocks will choke when you add a rail mounted light. Better to find out your pistol has problems when it is just friends and no-one shooting back, than when the crap hits the fan.
    Mark
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    55Kingpin

    Posts : 13
    Join date : 2009-03-01

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  55Kingpin on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:32 pm

    MarkEagle wrote:The scores will be calculated, but under the BUG gun division. You can note your scores and see where you place. We will use the same score sheets and all
    Mark

    Does that mean when we look at the "overall" sheet it will include 1st gun, 2nd gun, and now BUG gun? Is there any way to break them out separately like you do when there is a classifier? Have a separate link for 1st gun, 2nd gun, and BUG gun, that way the "overall" scores don't get confused.

    Also, you may want to think about using something other than BUG gun for the class considering the fact that IDPA actually has a BUG gun division, which limits mag capacity to 5 rounds, barrel length of 3.8" or less for autos and 3" or less for revolvers, no reloads on the clock, etc... Just a thought so as shooters don't get confused when you start talking about a "BUG gun division" and they see you shooting a Glock 22 with light attached and then they go home and read the rule book... maybe something like "AOW" for "Any Other Weapon not listed in the IDPA rulebook".

    Just thinking out loud...

    Respectfully,

    Chase A. King
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    s lance

    Posts : 41
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Location : Kentucky

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  s lance on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:36 pm

    For what it is worth, my club runs an outlaw rifle division of IDPA that is scored independently so that everyone isn't just mixed in together. The idea of an AOW Division is a pretty good one as long as it doesn't cause a lot more work for the scorekeeper.



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    55Kingpin

    Posts : 13
    Join date : 2009-03-01

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  55Kingpin on Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:54 pm

    s lance wrote:For what it is worth, my club runs an outlaw rifle division of IDPA that is scored independently so that everyone isn't just mixed in together. The idea of an AOW Division is a pretty good one as long as it doesn't cause a lot more work for the scorekeeper.


    Honestly, when you go to buy a car, or watch a movie, or go bowling, or shop at china-mart, do you really care how much paperwork/manual labor is expended on the employees? I mean the shooters are paying customers, shouldn't we try to satisfy them so that they will return next month and the club can remain fiscally solvent? I mean really, clubs wouldn't exist if it wasn't for paying customers/members...

    Just my honest opinion (as a paying customer)...

    Respectfully,

    Chase A. King
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    s lance

    Posts : 41
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Location : Kentucky

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  s lance on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:14 pm

    55Kingpin wrote:
    s lance wrote:For what it is worth, my club runs an outlaw rifle division of IDPA that is scored independently so that everyone isn't just mixed in together. The idea of an AOW Division is a pretty good one as long as it doesn't cause a lot more work for the scorekeeper.


    Honestly, when you go to buy a car, or watch a movie, or go bowling, or shop at china-mart, do you really care how much paperwork/manual labor is expended on the employees? I mean the shooters are paying customers, shouldn't we try to satisfy them so that they will return next month and the club can remain fiscally solvent? I mean really, clubs wouldn't exist if it wasn't for paying customers/members...

    Just my honest opinion (as a paying customer)...

    Respectfully,

    Chase A. King

    Unless, the scorekeeper is a PAID employee, clubs have to absolutely consider the work that is required by RO's, SO's, setup crews, scorekeepers, etc. It takes a tremendous amount of work to put on matches month after month and usually the work is done by volunteers. If no one is willing to do the work, there aren't any matches, regardless of the financial status of the club.

    If Kettlefoot actually pays people to setup stages, SO, do scores and post them, then I retract my statements.


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    55Kingpin

    Posts : 13
    Join date : 2009-03-01

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  55Kingpin on Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:59 pm

    Don't getme wrong I appreciate all the volunteer work that goes into running a match. I am an active volunteer myself and infact I'm setting up stages for this weekend.

    My analogy is flawed but my point is that there will always be volunteers, including myself, but shooters will flock to the matches they enjoy the most and feel like they're getting their moneys worth.

    As a volunteer and a shooter i'll tell you straight that I won't go back to a match that I feel like wastes my time and money.

    I'm posting from a phone so excuse my spelling and grammar.

    Respectfully,

    Chase A. King
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    MarkEagle

    Posts : 64
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Age : 62

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  MarkEagle on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:14 pm

    Chase,
    The BUG name is just a semantic use, I'll probably list the extra division as Personal Defense category. I am staying away from Unclassified as that might get more confusing. With Forescore the program will compute the scores but will not add the PD division to the overall listing (which is not an approved IDPA report anyway)
    See you tomorrow or Sat
    Mark

    surestrike1

    Posts : 15
    Join date : 2010-09-20

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  surestrike1 on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:22 pm

    I will say I can see both points for the last two post and both have merit. I have both volunteered (for years) and have paid to shoot.
    The problem I have is that it is a match, people are competing against each other.
    I have shot all of my defensive guns with actual defensive ammo to the point I trust the 100%. As a competitor at a match I am going to opt for my long heavy high cap gun with light and no holster which means no concealment if scores are going to be posted.
    Since all of the gear that will be used is considered illegal for idpa this would be a great venue to shoot on (for example) the 2nd weekend of the month. It could be called HDPA (home defensive pistol association.LOL.
    Bill would be so proud !!!
    Please God tell me I didn't just say that, I must be really tired.


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    55Kingpin

    Posts : 13
    Join date : 2009-03-01

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  55Kingpin on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:30 pm

    Mark,

    Sounds good. Can Forescore separate 1st gun and 2nd gun?
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    MarkEagle

    Posts : 64
    Join date : 2009-02-12
    Age : 62

    Re: Match options for monthly matches

    Post  MarkEagle on Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:49 pm

    Chase,
    Forescore shows me that people have been registered in the same division, but not on the printouts. FWIW, anything in the PD division will be a single division and not included in the overall scores. If this gets too complicated we will just drop it, but maybe people will get some benefit from it.

    Jane (Forescore developer) suggested, "Cheating open gun" division. LOL

    Mark


    Jane,
    Say I want to practice at a monthly match with my M&P 9mm with a X300 attached. Of course it is not "legal" but I would like to try shooting it and get some experience drawing it from a holster and see how it compares. Maybe next month try my SR9 and Viridian laser, again not IDPA legal, but it is a combination I have and would like to try under the stress of a monthly match. I want to shoot the same stages as everyone else and just see how I do and the combination works. I would hate to find out that the durn light falls off because I was using the wrong adapter plate.
    If you added another division, with no classifications, such as "experimental" or "Practical" or "Training" and allow me to shoot the monthly match with such a weapon and see how it actually does in a situation as close to real life short of an actual armed conflict. Of course this division could not officially classify, or shoot in any state or sanctioned match, so classifications would not be needed. It would be computed as it's own division and not as part of some other division. This would keep complaints that I was using a light or laser to cheat the regular division. I might beat someone in the "overall" report but that is not an official IDPA report anyway.
    Wouldn't you like to test some of the whizbang gadgets we put on our weapons during a match to see if they worked or were just a waste of money?
    Mark


    Mark,

    We have occasional guys show up with USPSA rigs. Usually, they're also IDPA shooters but want to play with new equipment for the other game.
    I rename BUG for that purpose. The scores are not included in "high senior/whatever" or the overall that way.
    Here's an example: http://www.slosa.org/idpa/results/2010-08-07.htm
    Jane

    PS... they're all a waste of money Twisted Evil

    http://www.slosa.org/idpa/results/2010-08-07.htm

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